What do you think about this argument against abortion?
Lets say that there was a drifter walking down the street. He falls over unconcious. Someone calls an ambulance and he is rushed to the hospital. He has no identification on him, and nobody has reported anyone similar to him missing. He is a John Doe.
It turns out that this man has come down with an incredibly rare disease. It is treatable. However the only known cure is to have the person hooked up to a machine, which is hooked up to another person, which gives him a constant blood transfusion for 9 strait months. If this is not done with in 6 days the drifter will die. Once someone is hooked up to the drifter, they cannot unhook with out killing the drifter.
Obviously nobody should be forced to hook up to the man. That would be comprable to rape. Lets say that the hospital sweetened the deal. They set up a roulette wheel with 200 spaces. Anybody who spins the wheel gets $50 dollars, but the catch is that if you land on double zero you get hooked up to the machine.
So you spin the wheel. You figure the odds of getting hooked up are only 1/200, but you would really like that fifty bucks. Turns out you lose. You hit double zero. You get hooked up to the machine. There is no way you can unhook from this machine without the drifter dying. Nobody forced you to spin the wheel. You made a choice to spin the wheel knowing that it could potentially result in you being hooked up to this man.
Should you be allowerd to unhook? This hypothetical example is identical in every relavent way to that of an accidental pregnancy, yet many people would have trouble saying it should be ok for you to unhook in this situation. That would be the equivelent of an abortion. So if you are pro-choice, is it ok to unhook in this situation, and if not, why is abortion ok in the case of an accidental pregnancy?
i think we make far to big a deal about death – death is a part of life, and cannot be avoided. If we worried more about living and loving, and less about not dying it would be a better world.
That is a realli good argument against abortion and is a realli good way to look at it.. Im gona use that on my friends.. Thanks.. It’ll convince them to not be so cruel and get wrid of the babies when they get pregnant… =D
I’d really need to assess so many different factors, and each person’s life is completely different and has different situations and cirumstances. What might be wrong for someone, is right for another. I find it very hard to put everything like this under the one umbrella.
It’s not even close to identical. A drifter has been BORN – a fetus has NOT. The federal government has NO obligation to a person until BIRTH. See Amendment XIV.
What about the guy who spun the wheel with you, got you hooked up to the drifter, and is now forcing you to stay connected even though he knew there was no chance that he himself could connected to the drifter? Just seems kinda hypocritical to me…
Your argument against abortion is valid as long as you assume that the drifter is a human being.
In the case of abortion, it is not so clear that the tiny collection of cells inside the woman is in fact a human being. At the start, it is just a fertilised egg. This splits, and part of it becomes the placenta and another part eventually becomes the person. Clearly the placenta is not a human being, and nobody worries that it is dumped when the whole procedure is finished. The other part may be human right from the start or may not acquire humanity until much later on, depending on your point of view. This is what the case for or against abortion really amounts to. Is it murder, or is it just the clearing away of a few unwanted cells, just as you would cut out a cancer if it were growing inside you.
I don’t know the answer to this one.
RIGHT OR WRONG–THE PERSON WHO IS PREGNANT HAS THE DECISION TO MAKE–NOT YOU NOR I..
LET THEM MAKE IT AND LIVE WITH IT.
YOU AND I CAN’T PLAY GOD FOR HER…
THATS BS…DON’T EVEN GO THERE…
WE MUST DEAL WITH OUR OWN SINS…
I DON’T AGREE WITH ABORTION—
BUT I DON’T AGREE WITH OTHERS MAKING CHOICES FOR PEOPLE.
YOU DON’T VOTE FOR ME–I DON’T VOTE FOR YOU…
ABORT FOR ONE IS NOT ABORT FOR ANOTHER…
CAPT PUNISH FOR ONE IS NOT FOR ALL.
HATE CRIMES AND ILLEGAL ALIENS–WORLD FULL OF CAUSES… HOMO’S AND STEM CELL RESEARCH- AND EXP OF SPACE AND EVOLUTION OVER CREATION…
FIND YOUR PEACE AND LIVE IT..
GOD LOVES EM ALL…
CHILDREN IN HEAVEN…..
WILL YOU GET THERE????
DEAL WITH THE BIBLE ///LOVE GOD AND YOUR NEIGHBOR–
I’m sorry but I find your analogy absurd. How is someone arbitrarily being hooked up to a homeless person the same as someone choosing to have unprotected sex & becoming pregnant?! How is deliberately taking the life of your own child in anyway similar to your strange scenario!
No, a better analogy for abortion is that if a woman killed her baby in its crib because he was an inconvenience to her, she’d go to jail but if she has him murdered while still in her womb she’s labelled as “pro-choice.”
I’m sorry but I have to speak for innocent victims who can’t speak for themselves. I am against the torture or murder of innocent children, animals or any other innocent.
I am anti-abortion. I went to Catholic schools. I’ve seen films & horrifying photos of what happens to aborted fetuses. I’ve also spoken with women who had abortions & are plagued with guilt the rest of their lives.
People need to take responsibilities for their actions. Don’t have unprotected sex if you don’t want kids! & perhaps don’t engage in sexual intercourse with someone you don’t love & whose children you would not want to bear!
Are we allowed to murder anyone that we don’t want in our lives? Anyone whom we consider an inconvenience?! Life is precious. It begins at the moment of conception. That is a person. A human being. The DNA is there. You are taking a human life. If we have no respect for these human lives then what is the next step? Why stop there? Why not solve the world’s overpopulation by rubbing out everyone that we don’t deem worthy.
Rape is the only case that is more complicated. I could certainly understand someone not wanting to carry a child that was born out of a violent act. But sadly the child is still an innocent. Punishing them won’t change what the father did. Giving them up for adoption would be more humane. There are many families that can’t bear children & would love to adopt.
I am against hurting anyone innocent. Who is more innocent than a baby? Abortion to me is no different from infanticide or any other form of murder. When do you become human? When you have arms & legs (would you kill amputees then)? At what point. how do you make that distinction? The life has begun & is growing from the start. It may start small but it is still a person. It doesn’t take long for organs to form. How do you draw the line? When are abortions legal? How many months pregnant?
People need to check out photos of babies that have been left to die at 5 months. Babies that are tortured & torn to pieces. That is a life you are destroying or vacuuming away.
It’s beyond horrible.
Pro-life.
I’m afraid that I was too hasty to answer your question & started on a rant thinking that you were pro-abortion based on your scenario & you’re actually against it! So I apologize for misunderstanding you. After rereading your question I realize what you’re trying to say but I don’t think it quite works as an argument against abortion because you make it sound like someone is picked at random and that’s not how pregnancy happens. It’s not a lottery. It’s called having sex! & killing your own child certainly can’t compare with refusing to save a derelict stranger. But certainly if your idea can help people to see that these are human beings not just a collection of cells then it’s worthwhile.
Good luck.
I get too upset when someone mentions abortion!
I can’t say that it would be acceptable to unhook the wheel since the man took responsibility on spinning the roulett, but I know I would. So I can’t say that it’s good or bad. But this situation is no where near abortion. I mean, you said that unwanted pregnancy is by choice and not by accidents, but what if it’s caused by rape? That is certaily not by choice and there would be tremendous amount of physical and mental stress on that person. Personally I’m against abortion but I wouldn’t know the pain caused by rape so…..
hmmmmmmm not sure that is a comparison.
I will say it amazing that we live in a world where we keep the elderly alive for as long as we can. People live in nursing homes for $7,000 a month and have no brain activity left. Yet, they are kept alive.
Then we have pepole who treat a prenancy like a tissue they can throw away at a whim.
We live in a crazy world.
btw I am not against keeping our elderly alive.
You’re assuming an embryo is a person. Since I reject that assumption, the rest of your argument isn’t even worth reading in detail for me.
I understand your argument.
Maybe you heard of this one,in case I’m not the original thinker of this one.
Tell the the “pro-choicers” to thank their mothers that they chose not to have an abortion when they carried them.
It’s a good one, having in mind that life begins with sensation/perception/memory or whatever feeling you might define, so it doesn’t apply when the person still haven’t hooked to a living thing (an embrio without differentiation is not a conscious thing- it doesn’t have any nervious system to be aware or to form memories or to suffer a loss, so it’s fair to abort there , at this point- that is a real “aborting the mission”; once we get were early fetus is, then you kill someone, you just don’t skip a life, you kill it)
personally I’m pro-life,politically I’m pro-choice….we can not begin to understand what someone else is or has to go thur.but i also believe that abortion should not be used as a method of birth control, (I’ve witness more than a few girls back in high school do) i was raped in junior high by my best friends older brother, which resulted in an unwanted pregnancy, for two weeks i had agonized over what my decision would be..the stress of the situation & family friends school tring to make that decition for me..was one of the worst times in my life. i chose to abort…the morning of the apointment i miscarried. but even if i didn’t i would have gone thur with it. because altimitly i didn’t want a child to search me out years later to find out how they where conceved…anyway thats not really here nor there you have an interesting consept but i don’t think you have a good comparison. good luck to you…and thanks for the question
It is a very good argument against abortion, I don’t recall who wrote the original argument but it is still debated since it is a very good analogy to an abortion.
Addressing those who believe a fetus is not a person therefore it is okay to kill it, you are not considering that it is a potential person, and that in itself has inherant value.
Regarding the issue of rape, philisophically in a way everything that happenes to one is one’s own fault. If I value my life enough, I will look both ways when crossing the street, or I will wear my seat belt, or I will not trust people I am unsure of. If you truly dont want to be robbed, bar your windows and set up an alarm system. Of course we all take little short cuts to make our lives more conveniant, we go on blind dates and dont look both ways driving onto a one way street. It is hard to see that we are 100% responsible for ourselves.We take calculated risks and sometimes things go wrong, but you accept that with yourself every day your not locked up in your basement, which is being a human. If you are unlucky and somethind bad happens to you, like rape, it is hard to deal with. Morally and philisophically from this view, however, you should not abort the fetus. You are responsible for this potential person until it is able to calculate its own risks and decisions.
A person who has willingly chosen to have sex and has become pregnant chose to risk becoming pregnant, they gambled with a potential person’s life in order to have a good time. Even if one believes this fetus is not a potential person, it is a living being, and its life is surely worth more than your physical pleasure. If you believe it is not immoral to kill this being then I hope you believe it is okay to smash a dog’s head in for the fun of it.
No, they shouln’t be allowed to unhook. They chose to play the game and took the 50 bucks, now they should keep their end of the bargain and stick to the rules!
The analogy you give is a good one when up against the risks people take when having unprotected sex, since in both cases free choice is involved (to decide to spin the wheel and to decide to have unprotected sex) plus also the reward (the 50 bucks and the pleasure of sex).
However, the analogy cannot be used to make the same point pro anti-abortionism when taking into account an unwanted pregnancy due to a rape or a case where the foetus is severely and incurably disabled, handicapped or ill or cases where both mother’s and unborn’s lives are at high risk if pregnancy continues.
I too am anti-abortion and specially so where it comes to ‘accidental’ pregnancies since there is ‘no excuse’ for anyone not taking precautions nowadays, what with all the available methods of contraception we have on offer.
When it comes down to a pregnancy through rape case, it gets a little more complicated, as no free choice is involved. It could be argued that a trip to a doctor or hospital within 24 hours of the violent act can put an end to any possible conception, but it’s difficult enough to cope with such a trauma in one’s life as well as to be trying to think straight and make calculated decisions about avoiding a possible pregnancy (e.g. various deseases like aids, VD, hepatitis etc.).
And what about a pregnancy where the foetus is severely deformed? I find this the most difficult pro-life argument to have to face.
Overall, I think the biggest problem is the fact that if it were possible to outlaw abortion, it would still go on. Some doctors (and in worse case scenarios, unqualified people will no scruples) would always be found who were prepared to perform abortions illegally for the right amount of cash and desperate people will always seek them out which would put more young girl’s lives at risk.
It’s a debate which will never end.